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jenn_calaelen posted to yuletide_admin August 1 2014, 20:47

Crossposting To Dreamwidth

We can announce that, due to popular request, we will be crossposting to Dreamwidth in future at http://yuletide-admin.dreamwidth.org.

Thank you for all of your comments so far. Whether you have agreed, disagreed, or offered alternatives to the rules we have proposed, there has been a lot of thoughtful feedback.

We are considering all your responses and will use them in deciding the final rules. However, because we have said the discussions will remain open to September, to allow everyone time to participate, please don’t expect an immediate announcement.

We're sorry if you're waiting for the post on book series and fanworks; we're still polishing it, and it will appear in the next few days.
snacky posted to yuletide July 29 2014, 02:18

Narnia Fic Exchange

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It's time again for the Annual Narnia Fic Exchange! You can join us by signing up HERE! Please note the change this year: the NFE will be held on AO3, and not on LJ.

Read through the FAQ and the rules HERE.
Sign up for beta duty HERE.
Sign up for pinch hitting HERE.

Important dates:

Signups close: August 2
Prompts sent out: by August 4
Assignments due: September 13
Works revealed: September 20
Authors revealed: Septmeber 27

If you have any questions, feel free to email the mods at narniaficexchange@gmail.com
airgiodslv posted to yuletide July 29 2014, 00:44

Top Shelf!

Top Shelf PSL is a fantasy & science fiction book club community for writers who love reading, and vice versa. Like yuletide, it encourages fanworks in more obscure fandoms, and provides a sandbox for writers who want to explore the worlds of their favourite books in collaboration with others. Roleplaying, co-writing, narrative fiction, fanmixes, and fanart are all welcome, with a strong emphasis on rpg-style collaborative writing/tagging.

Questions, comments, and thoughts are always welcome; my contact info can be found in the entry linked below, along with the game premise, guidelines, structure, and other information. You can also see the books that have been suggested thus far here, for an idea of what current players are interested in.

Top Shelf PSL Information

Thank you to the yuletide moderators for the signal boost!
hhertzof posted to yuletide_admin July 26 2014, 19:22

Linked fandoms (Comics, Reboots, Sprawling Universes)

We’re still working to get the rules in place for another great year of Yuletide.

This post is for discussing rules to deal with spin-offs, adaptations, reboots, sub-sections of fandoms that are or could be considered their own fandoms, and similar fandoms that are related to each other in complicated ways. These have been an issue in the past and we want to make sure we’re dealing with them in a way that is fair to everyone’s small fandoms, as well as being clear and easy to follow.

Suggestions need to balance fairness and practicality. Rules will be based on a combination of factors: whether they are fair; how they will affect matching; how easy they are to understand; how much work they create for tagmods; and how much work they create for mods :).

In particular, it is a very difficult for the mods to deal with prompts that bend or break the spirit of the rules - for example, asking for a character in an eligible fandom based on how they are characterised in a huge, ineligible fandom. It is a priority to avoid such situations as best we can.

Where possible, we want rules that can be applied in multiple cases, rather than separate rules for comics vs. games in a series, or adaptations vs. reboots, etc. This will keep things simple for the mod team and, importantly, the participants.

Linked Fandoms

We really don't want to go back to the 'franchise' rule whereby everything that is closely related to a far-too-popular franchise is banned (i.e. everything Star Trek, Doctor Who, Marvel, DC, etc.).

So instead we are looking at two possible ways of handling these linked fandoms:
  1. A simpler version of the character rules from last year. Any character tagged in over 750 works total on AO3 would be ineligible. However:
    • For comic characters, the limit could be calculated by universe, e.g. Marvel 616; that is, Clint Barton is has 1214 works in Marvel 616, so he would not be eligible in any of the titles in this universe, like Secret Avengers; however, he would still eligible in Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes.

    • Adaptations of fandoms would similarly be considered separate universes (for example: Sherlock Holmes in the Enola Holmes series; Merlin in Merlin of the Crystal Cave).

  2. Alternatively, we could use a stricter numerical cut-off, like 750 works, for fandoms within a linked group, then allow through any characters who appear in that fandom. If we go with this option and it is widely abused, the 2015 rules will be stricter.

Non-filterable Fandoms on FF.net

Some of these fandoms are not reliably separated out on fanfiction.net. Even when ff.net’s “world” filter (separating comics vs. movies, movie vs. videogame, etc) is available, it is not consistently applied. In these cases, we might have to just use AO3 numbers, adjusted to a lower cut-off point.

For example, for most fandoms the cut-off would generally be 1000. However, in these cases where stories exist on ff.net but the data about them is useless we’d use a cut-off of 750. If we were looking at a spin-off or a sub-fandom and applying the lower 750 rule, then the AO3-only total would be 500.

Ineligible Categories

Fandoms nominated should not be too general, to ensure offers and matching work well. Some examples of fandoms that are too broad:
  • Any fandom tag that includes "All Media Types" or "& Related Fandoms".

  • Comic universes as a whole (e.g., Marvel 616).

  • Comics crossover events, as these are very broad and difficult to handle. (e.g., Civil War or AvX – these had their own limited-run titles, but they pulled in characters from almost all concurrently running titles, and as such rely on knowledge of the associated canons).


We may require additional evidence if we cannot verify that characters have appeared in the fandom they were nominated in.


We have such an engaged community here, one that really cares about Yuletide. We know many of you will have opinions on these potential changes, and we want to hear them. So please comment on these rule options and keep the discussion constructive and positive.

The discussion will remain open until September.
jenn_calaelen posted to yuletide_admin July 23 2014, 19:16

RPF - What should be considered a fandom for Yuletide purposes

We are looking for input from people who request or offer RPF fandoms in Yuletide, because RPF fandoms aren't clearly defined.

For eligibility we'll be looking at the number of stories in each fandom, and the number of stories tagged for particular characters. Character eligibility will not be on a fandom by fandom basis.

Fanfiction.net does not allow RPF, so the eligibility of fandoms will be determined solely by the AO3 numbers.

Generic Fandoms like American Actor RPF and Historical RPF are too broad and will not be allowed.

For the purposes of matching, we would prefer choices that lead to smaller character sets per RPF fandom, because
  • People can only offer up to 8 specific characters, and then, above that, Any.

  • If there are 15 or 50 characters in a fandom, the number of people willing to offer Any is very low, and there is a lower likelihood that people’s offers and requests may match.

  • Matching is run on And, so if someone asks for two characters, another person has to offer both of those two characters to be matched to them.

Some examples from last year (ignoring #yt rpf):
  • the RPF fandom with the most characters was Ancient History RPF with 31. This fandom had 1 brave person offering Any and 7 offering a selection of characters.

  • Of the 15 fandoms with over 10 nominated characters, 8 had no one offering Any. The rest had 1-2 people offering Any. Five had over 10 people offering limited sets of characters.

  • Examples of fandoms with no Any offers: Baseball RPF, Tennis RPF, 20th Century CE RPF, and Pop Music RPF.

  • Oscar Wilde and Walt Whitman appeared together in 3 separate fandoms, with Walt Whitman being nominated in a 4th fandom as well. This seems like excessive duplication, especially because someone could offer these characters in Literary RPF or 19th Century RPF, and another person could request them in Literary Trysts It Gives Me Great Joy to Think About, and they would not match.

Below the cut is a table of all the RPF offers and requests for 2013, the data has been collected from the signups by Morbane (and the notes have been written by her).

Table of RPF Offers and RequestsCollapse )

The important thing to is ensure matching will work. We will be looking at any suggestions from that perspective.

We would like the input of people who are likely to request or offer RPF on how they would like fandoms divided. Also, how to define if characters belong in a fandom (eg in the past there have been requests for actors' partners to be allowed in particular movie RPF fandoms). Hopefully, by coordinating ahead of time, some of the difficulties with matching can be avoided.

This discussion will remain open until early September (and yes, there will be a warning before it closes). Mods will be reading all the comments, but we will not be replying to everything - we want to give you a space to discuss among yourselves. We will be around to answer questions. Please remember the notes in the previous post on accepted behaviour.

EDIT: To try and clear us some of the questions on too broad categories: The following would be considered too broad: Historical RPF; Sports RPF; Actor RPF; [Country] Actor RPF; Literary RPF. If other fandoms come up in advance of nominations that are too broad they will be added to the list in the comm.
jenn_calaelen posted to yuletide_admin July 19 2014, 13:39

2014 Initial Points and Discussion Schedule

General Fandom Eligibility

In general, fandoms will be approved if their total on AO3 and fanfiction.net, added together, is under 1000 stories. A story must be in English, complete, and over 1000 words long to be considered in that total. The number has been chosen to take into account the fact that there are some duplicates across the two archives.

This covers most fandoms. There will be further rules to cover what is considered a fandom and eligibility in complicated cases. See the schedule for discussion below.

In previous years, we looked at fanfic numbers on other archives and whether fandom-specific exchanges existed for them. This year, we are ignoring them. There are very few fandoms where other archives are a deciding factor, and ignoring them makes it much simpler for both participants and tagmods to check eligibility. Some fandoms may become eligible again because of this.

Here are some examples. We are, of course, using July numbers so some fandoms that are eligible now may not be eligible at the time of nominations.

Sleepy Hollow (TV) 307 on AO3 + 156 on ff.net - eligible
Good Omens - Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett 883 on AO3 + 471 on ff.net - too large
Blake's 7 798 + 194 - eligible (just)

(Remember, if you are checking numbers on fanfiction.net, you will need to select All Ratings as well as selecting English, Complete, and Length > 1k words. On AO3, you can type “words>1000” into the “Search Within Results” field to help filter for length)

There are posts coming to discuss the rules for:
  • RPF fandoms (approx 23nd July)

  • Tie-ins, spin-offs, adaptations, reboots, and similarly linked fandoms (eg Sherlock Holmes, Star Trek, and Marvel) (approx 26th July)

  • book series; fanfic and fanart (approx 30th July)

Following these, there will be posts for commenting on remaining issues and changes.

Please wait until the relevant posts to discuss the fandoms covered by the list above. If there are other types of fandoms that you think need specific discussion, please say.

Numbers of Nominations, Requests, and Offers

From the feedback, people liked being allowed more requests. However, some people would have preferred to be allowed to request or offer fewer things. To balance these factors and to try and ensure matching still works well, we will use these numbers for Yuletide 2014:
  • Nominations: 3 fandoms, up to 4 characters in each.

  • Requests: 3-6 fandoms, 0-4 characters each.

  • Offers: 4-10 fandoms, with bucket, characters: 2-8 or Any.

Expected Behaviour

We welcome discussion and questions here. However, we expect everyone to try and be considerate of the other participants in the discussion. Swearing at people or calling them names will not be tolerated. Threads may be frozen if the discussion gets inappropriately nasty.

EDIT: Some of our wonderful tagmods from last year (currently: Moriann and Morbane) are helping out with answering comments - they know what they are talking about but are not responsible for the mods' decisions.
jalu2 posted to yuletide July 19 2014, 05:48


FANDOMS: Bob's Burgers; Dexter; Grease; Greek Mythology; Matilda; Minesweeper; Mythbusters RPF; Rebel Without A Cause; Rocky Horror Picture Show; Romeo and Juliet; Shelter; The Sims; The Simpsons; Solar System; The Tempest; Tennis RPF.

can be found over on my DW.

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